NAACP, COAST notch 4th ballot issue in three years
In a display of almost unimaginable fiscal irresponsibility, City Council is pressing forward with plans for a $185 million trolley system extending only four miles (and perhaps up the hill to Clifton, if that’s possible) in the midst of the City’s budget crisis. In response, Cincinnati’s WeDemandAVote.Com coalition has collected more than 12,000 signatures to place the issue on the ballot.“Once again, the unique partnership between the NAACP and COAST has borne fruit,” said COAST Chairman Jason Gloyd. “Together, we have forced to a vote on the massively unpopular policies of our irresponsible elected officials.”
The WeDemandAVote.Com coalition includes the NAACP, COAST, the Green Party of Southwest Ohio and the Libertarian Party of Ohio.
As a result of this year’s effort, voters will have a chance to vote on a Charter Amendment on the November 4 ballot to force a public vote on all passenger rail capital expenditures of the City.
Wow, once again Cincinnati might be on the path to shooting itself in the foot.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I'll actually move to Portland where people think.
You could instantly add about 150,000 people in the city center around this streetcar line and garner the extra tax base and businesses that go with them, but I guess COAST members would rather we carry the whole tax burden and drag us down with them.
The fact they don't see why a streetcar is different than buses is why they don't understand and see the value of any civic minded project at all. Quality of life isn't even on their radar, I guess....
Maybe we should take all the nuclear waste intended for Yucca Mtn. and just shove it in the old abandoned subway tunnels for profit.
Great, so let's defeat the trolley and throw away all the money from federal sources that will then go to other cities and not be reinvested in Cincinnati. Great short term thinking here C.O.A.S.T! On top of it as always.
ReplyDeleteHey, say, why aren't you guys protesting the massive I-275 and I-75 re-paving and re-allignment projects going on that are way over budget and way behind schedule?
1. Read the language YOU wrote - this isn't about the streetcar, it is about the future of all rail development. Rail development is a fantastic INVESTMENT, as in, it will make money. Do some research.
ReplyDelete2. The $185 million number reflects the plan that will actually go up the hill to Clifton. This is, in fact, possible. Do some research.
Please do not confuse anything that "coast" says or does as being driven by the best interests of the city of cincinnati. In fact, if you simply think the opposite, then everything they say or do will make complete sense, and you will be able to predict their positions accurately.
ReplyDeleteWhat is COAST'S plan to redevelop downtown and OTR?? How is COAST going to replace the 1.8b in economic development? Why no petition against the Drake levy? Or the Museum?Or the Banks?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said "Why no petition against the Drake Levy, the museum, The Banks?"
ReplyDeleteAll of those projects were VOTED on and APPROVED by the voters. All this petition does is give the voters a similar option.
WHY ARE YOU AFRAID OF THE VOTERS?????
Why doesn't COAST demand we vote on these massive infrastructure projects that have become the boondoggles they hate... such as they delays and massive amounts of spending on I-275 and I-75?
ReplyDeleteRonny,
ReplyDeleteHighway projects are sourced at the Federal level. There's no realistic way to do it, short of a constitutional amendment or act of Congress. Democrats currently control the Presidency, House & Senate, and they don't listen to COAST much.
Why all this animosity toward us? We're not asking for new highway spending. We're as apalled as you are that the trust fund, set up to allow drivers to pay for the highway infrastructure they use, has been abused into bankruptcy. We're happy to pay as we go.
Go bitch to your Democrat buddies running the government and ask them why they keep spending so much. Ask them why fuel taxes are being illegally diverted to fund parasitic rail boondoggles. Ask them why 90+% of the stimulus is going to road projects, with a pittance toward rail.
They'll tell you that's where the demand is. Then they'll do what government always does...tell you to sit down, shutup, and trust them to take care of you.
So are they taking care of you?
COAST, the animosity towards you guys comes from your absolutely ridiculous campaign themes. Going on the radio calling it a "coal powered trolley" and lying about the projected and actual costs of transit projects such as the Riverfront Transit Center and the streetcar project. The charter amendment is absolutely ridiculous and would severely hurt not only the streetcar project but any progress on regional transit options that could benefit the entire Tri-State area or even the entire state (the 3c corridor). Your charter amendment completely defies the processes of representative democracy. It would be one thing to demand a vote, but when you demand that while at the same time having Jason Gloyd, going on about exaggerations and lies on The Bill Cunningham Show, animosity grows. You're not just demanding a vote, a vote that should be left to elected officials which is why we and you elect them, you're promoting a very skewed campaign against the streetcar. The worst part is it not only affects the streetcar, which I can understand SOME of your concerns about, but it effectively halts progress on any other rail projects.
ReplyDelete"So are they taking care of you?"
^This is a great question. There are times I feel my elected officials aren't taking care of me, that's why I campaign and work on elections and issues when the time comes around to re-elect or elect new officials and pass issues. I don't complain, whine and flat out lie to try and pass an amendment on every little issue whenever I feel it's convenient.
I prefer the style of government, voting and election laid out in the constitution by the founding fathers. I believe in representative democracy, not charter amendments. The kind of voting style you want is way too similar to the kind of crap they have in California. If I wanted that I'd move to California.
Also, I'm a very conservative person and was very unhappy with not only the stimulus plan, but how it hasn't really panned out. Regardless, at least I educated myself on it and I suggest you should too...considering 90 percent of it is not just for highway spending.
Finally, Cincinnati has the chance to promote a sound transit option connecting two major employment centers and destabilizing crime while promoting renovation. Yet, you stand in the way with exaggerations and nonsense. If the trolley plan is abandoned it's not like that federal money will go back to the taxpayers here in Cincinnati, it will go to other cities ready to take advantage of it and move forward with progress, yet here we will still be left in the dark.
"When the end of the world comes, I want to be in Cincinnati because it's always twenty years behind the times." - Mark Twain
It's groups like COAST that make that quotation ever more true.
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ReplyDeleteWe do not think the voters should have any say in these projects. Government knows best. They told us we needed those stadiums and they were right. Now they are right about the streetcar which we endorsed.
ReplyDeleteCOASTers, we notice you didn't say anything about the State Senate seat. We are making sure that our Michelle Schneider will get the appointment. Her support for higher taxes is well-established and needed in our state.
We have just updated our blog to reveal more good news about Michelle's great tax-and-spend record.
I got it! After the trolley starts running, albeit on broken, pothole strewn streets, maybe we should spend a few more million on installing the sky ride to Mt. Adams that the city spent a ton of money doing a feasibility study back in the 80's. After that we really need the Ferris Wheel, and then maybe another empty museum on the Banks to show the country what irresponsible city leadership is all about. Funny how we can't even get our rust ugly bridges painted, pick up the trash, pave the streets, paint the neighborhoods, and do all the simple things first. Why add more, like the transit tunnel, if you can't maintain what is already here! It's high time to clean house and bring in experienced, successful business leaders to city council.
ReplyDelete"It's high time to clean house and bring in experienced, successful business leaders to city council."
ReplyDeleteThat's great if you feel that way, but passing charter amendments that require public votes on everything would completely sidestep the need for properly electing officials. Who needs experienced, successful leaders on city council when you can go to mob rule backed by a charter amendment?
Mr Chortz
ReplyDeleteYeah referandum voting has done wonders for the state of California!! We vote for officials to make informed decisions. Not have idiot voters such as yourself vote for the referandum.
Once again how does COAST plan to redevelop the downtown and OTR area? The streetcar is a lot cheaper then subsidizing every residential unit like they are currently doing!!!
Mr Chortz
ReplyDeleteYeah referandum voting has done wonders for the state of California!! We vote for officials to make informed decisions. Not have idiot voters such as yourself vote for the referandum.
Once again how does COAST plan to redevelop the downtown and OTR area? The streetcar is a lot cheaper then subsidizing every residential unit like they are currently doing!!!
Anonymous -
ReplyDeleteThanks for following the standard streetcar proponent arguing points - If at first you don't win them over, lower yourself to name calling. Stay classy.
There are a lot of reasons why California is a mess. Foremost is the fact that their elected officials have spent taxpayer funds recklessly for decades without regard to the fiscal consequences - hence the massive deficit.
It would have been helpful if Californians would have put forth a ballot initiative to limit the out of control spending of their elected officials, but they didn't. We won't make the same mistake here in Cincinnati.
I forgot to sign the last post. I hate Jews.
ReplyDeleteMr Chortz,
ReplyDeleteWhat is COAST'S plan to bring 1.8b in redvelopment to Downtown & OTR? Right there is none!!Come up with a better plan...please!! This plan will go along way to save one of the eleven most endangered neighborhoods in the country (OTR). OK your plan= keep subsidizing every unit down there. That is brillant!! It costs ten times the costs of the streetcar!Why doesn't COAST hold a conference in front of Gateway Quarter in OTR??
Oh yeah Anthony Kirkland thanks you for defeating the jail tax also!!
There is no plan anywhere that will actually bring $1.8 billion to OTR. Throwing down the magic rail only works in Disney movies.
ReplyDeleteOK what if they are half right??? That is still 1b in RE-development.
ReplyDeleteThe SC is cheaper than the SUBSIDIZING THAT THEY ARE DOING NOW!!! Why can't anyone here figure that out??
Ok some simple math. There is 500 vacant building in OTR alone. The city is subsidizing at at 100k clip per unit. If we use an avg of 10 units per building that is 500M In subsidized units.
Which is more 1.85m<500m. Once again why nothing on COAST about the Subsudizing of units??
Duey - Those numbers are amazing. Unfortunately, they have ABSOLUTELY ZERO basis in reality. Per your numbers the City is subsidizing OTR at $500 million. Really? You may want to re-check your numbers, or stop making things up whole cloth. The City's entire operating budget is only $365 million. Nice try.
ReplyDeleteLIAR!!!!!
MR Chortz,
ReplyDeleteNow who is name calling??? You are really showing your ignorance here. First of all I did not say in one year. Second of all have you ever heard of FEDERAL BLOCK grants or FEDERAL HOME funds???Or State Historical Funds? Do those come out city operating budget??
Let me know how nuch subsidy is going into Gateway Quarter would you please? If I am wrong. Please give me a number. I deal with it every day so I know...LIAR :0
Duey,
ReplyDeleteYes I have heard of FEDERAL BLOCK grants, FEDERAL HOME funds, and State Historical Funds. What's your point? Is there a ballot process available to the voters to repeal those funds - no. I'm not sure exactly what that has to do with whether or not the choo choo is a good use of taxpayer funds.
You still have not provided one single source to back up your $500 million number. Not one single verifiable soure. LIAR.
The source is me. I am the source.
ReplyDeleteGo back and see how much subsidy is put into the Kroger condo garage project. The rest like I said is "simple math." Is that too hard to understand??
500*10*100=500m.
"What is your point?" My point is you are comparing the city's operating budget of 365m to federal& state grants used to subsidize residential units in OTR.
Ok lets avoid all of this right here right now. You Mr Chortz come up with a better plan to redevelop the area? What is a better use of taxpayer dollars?
OK, you're the source. We can all sleep better now knowing that things are the way they are because the great Duey said so. I guess anyone can throw out meaningless numbers and not get questioned about their basis in reality. I suppose I can be a reliable and unquestioned source too. Let me try - The streetcar will cost each resident of Cincinnati $900 billion!!! I am the source, therefore it must be true.
ReplyDeleteYOU Duey come up with a better plan. Again, the idea that we have to accept ANY PLAN, no matter how BAD, is ridiculous. YOU are the one proposing a massive waste of money - YOU come up with a better plan.
By the way Duey, why are you so afraid of the voters?
How many voters are going to read an independent study by HDR (confirmed by the University of Cincinnati Economic Development Department) showing the economic impact on the City of Cincinnati? Your right None. They will just listen to loud mouths as yourself. Mr loud mouth knows more than an entire eingineering company and the entire economic development department at the University of Cincinnati. WOW!
ReplyDeleteIt is very tough to come out against taxes. Everyone is against raising taxes.
This city will suffer greatly if this gets passed. It will keep us behind every other city in the region Mr. Chortz
Why doesn't COAST do something constructive like come out against the Drake Levy not needed. Oh wait Mr Finney is on that board?? Follow the money!! Right?
Or how about collapsing the entire city goverment into a metro goverment. Now that would make sense for COAST but you want to focus on a streetcar that is an easy target. Because people won't get it and you know that.
HDR gains a rather large contract if the project proceeds, and UC stands to gain as well. They are hardly objective analysts. Plus we've seen glowing financials for every single capital project in the last 25 years. If these studies delivered even half of their promised development, the whole county would be drowning in dollar bills right now. The most eggregious example is the NURFC, where UC said it would have a billion dollar economic impact on the community from over a million visitors a year. Reality is that it's only sucked money out of our economy.
ReplyDeleteThe city is already suffering from taxes. THAT'S what's keeping us behind every other city in the region.
Turns out COAST was very instrumental in making the Drake levy go away this year. Bureacrats tacked a bunch of other stuff onto that levy over the years, which is what's going back onto the ballot where the Drake levy used to be, but Drake itself is sold, and won't burden the taxpayers again.
Metro Gov?!? Which flavor are you? Would you prefer to have the Democrat-dominated city take over the Republican-dominated county, or vice versa? Let's just stick with competition among lots of smaller entities, so we can see which different policies do a better job attracting people. If there's anything to be learned from the past Bush/Cheney/Hastert and the current Pelosi/Obama/Reid monopolies, it's that divided government is best. Too much of either flavor and government runs rough-shod over our liberty.
Duey -
ReplyDeleteChris Finney is not on the Drake Board, and hasn't been for years. Nice try though.
You ought to know that the Drake Levy expires in 2009, largely thanks to the hard work of people like COAST. Drake Hospital will no longer draw one single dollar of Hamilton County taxpayer money. For someone who knows so much about everything you think maybe you should have had that information.
By the way, thanks for confirming that YOU ARE AFRAID OF THE VOTERS. How dare COAST trust the unwashed masses to make decisions regarding their future for themselves, right? We should just leave those vitally important decisions to engineering companies and UC's economic Development Department.
Did the UC Economic Department also tell us the city was going to see a 3% increase in tax revenues this year?
ReplyDeleteThese guys aren't even smart enough to tell you that tax revenues will decline in a recession. But you trust them to tell us the economic impact over decades of magic rail in the ground?
Chortz-
ReplyDeleteYeah your right lets leave the multi millon decision to the people who elected Barack Obama Prez, Mark Mallory Mayor, and Dale Mallory to State Rep. I see why you want them to vote. They do know what they are doing!!
Coast if you are truly for less tax it should not matter what party you are affiliated with. Less Goverment=less tax period!!
Progress the only prgress is going to be in every other city in the region when they get their streetcar.Now that is progress!! Backwards progress!!
Mark Twain was right about this city.